The adversity of your thinking is something you will need to overcome at times. When it comes to your business (and pricing and nearly all things in life) you’ll be faced with challenges. Some will exist due to your own thinking.
Change your thinking and change the quality of your mind. Often being able to overcome the adversity of your thinking is what allows you to finally move forward when your stuck or find the courage to do what is needed to get where you want to go.
I remember in one of my earlier jobs a boss came in and said “Janene we’re taking XYZ part of your job and handing over to this person.” My first reaction was fear. Which was a strange reaction because it was a part of my job I really didn’t like. Once I realized that, “click” I felt like the luckiest person in the world. At first I made myself a little crazy. But once my mind shifted so did my attitude.
I walked in and wrapped all the things up related to that so I could hand it over to the new responsible person…then I could focus on what I really enjoyed. I had overcome the adversity of my thinking and that gave me space to focus on the right things.
In this episode…
In this episode of Live with the Pricing Lady, featuring expert guest Kamile Cawley, she shares with us her business and pricing journey. She’ll talk about how she’s been able to achieve more and how she’s been able to overcome adversity of your own thinking.
Kamille is a Network Maven and Connection Strategist helping entrepreneurs elevate their vibe, connect to their message and build a community that allows them to have more momentum and abundance in their life and business. I’m excited to have her on the show and I know you’re going to get so much out of this.
Let’s take a look at how you can overcome the adversity of your thinking; to go from business failure to success.
Highlights of this episode:
Note: these timestamps are from the video version.
- 0.00 Episode introduction
- 0:26 Who’s Kamille
- 1:38 197$ and a credit card
- 4:29 Keeping up facades
- 7:26 Pricing challenge faced
- 10.35 Feeling of being underpriced
- 11:46 Differently the second time around
- 14.12 Personal development journey
- 15.31 Kamille’s message from this episode
Favorite quotes from this episode:
“All of them were willing to pay the higher price. It was this powerful feeling for me…” Kamille
“I definitely was way low ticket. Way underestimating myself in the beginning because I didn’t think I was worth it.” Kamille
“To me, starting your own business is the biggest self development journey, I’ve personally been on. ” Janene
“That was a rough rough road because I knew I was working so hard and I have so many clients, but I wasn’t seeing the fruits of that labor. (because I wasn’t charging enough)” Kamille
“First of all, a squad. People that were around me that I could go to when I was feeling like oh, my God can I really charge this much for one-on-one coaching? And they’d be like, yeah, girl.” Kamille
“…if your mindset is messed up, the business isn’t going to go in the right direction. If you think you’re not worth it, you’re not going to be worth it. So it doesn’t matter how much strategy you put into it.” Kamille
“Just remember that if you’re doing a lot of work for people and you’re undervaluing yourself, you’re not going to be the person you need to be.” Kamille
Links from this episode:
- Find Kamille at https://www.kamillecawley.com/
- Or on Instagram, Facebook or Clubhouse @kamillecawley
Connect with Janene
Get started improving your business. Sometimes it’s difficult to know where to begin. I suggest you Download the the self assessment Pricing Scorecard. Get a view of what’s working and what’s not working when it comes to pricing in your business. Figure out where to start making improvements.
Get in touch with Janene. If you’ve got a question that needs answering, a challenge you’re facing or you have suggestions for future topics or guests, let me know. Contact Janene.
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Janene: I’m super excited to have you here. Why don’t you start off by introducing you?
Kamille: I am Kamille. I’m from Southern California, born and raised Southern California. Pretty much my whole journey and we’ll obviously jump into it as we go on here, but my whole journey through entrepreneurship, being a business owner, I have really learned new tactics, new minds, a few shifts that have just changed everything for me. I have been big on building communities. I ran a first business into burnout. It was really hard.
Coming out of that first business, I decided to build a lot of communities and see, I have the abundant entrepreneur and I haven’t been an entrepreneur unity summit podcast, all the things where women can come and get the support and the advice and like minded individuals to talk to where they can go through some of the situations that we’re going to talk about today in order to be able to move up and get to the next level in their businesses and not to stagnate or go through burnout like I did.
Janene: Excellent. This is a great topic. We were just talking about this a moment ago that it’s, it’s not that you have to go through these things, but oftentimes it is part of the process because you’re becoming that person that you need to become.
How Kamille got started as an entrepreneur
Why don’t we start this conversation. Tell us how it came to be that you started your own business.
Kamille: Yeah. I was on the path that I thought I was supposed to be; going to college getting all my degrees. I was supposed to go into my doctor to physical therapy. As I was getting ready… I applied, got accepted as I was getting ready to go to school and pay my first like tuition, I saw the amounts. I was like, I don’t even think this is what I want to do. You know, you’re raised a certain way. You’re told that this is the best way to stability. It’s smart. You know, it’s the way to go in life. And I just, I had a moment.
It was just a good moment of fear that came over me that I wasn’t, I was going to spend the next five to six years going through this program, spending a lot of money, being a doctor and be unhappy at the end of it. And start my thirties in somewhere that I might not want to be. During the time I was in college, I was paying for it by working as a personal trainer.
It’s just like a corporation. I was making a lot of money for that gym. I was doing really well. Because it was corporate gym, so I could bring in 20,000 and barely make three, with that. That I. I was going to do pass ongoing into my doctor. I figured I can always go back.
197$ and a credit card to start my business
There’s like a five-year span after you graduate to be able to go back. I started my own business. Like I decided to rent out a gym. I had $197 in my bank account and a [00:03:00] credit card. I put that first month of the facility on a credit card. So, I paid for the insurance, the liability insurance for 200 bucks.
I had in my bank account and I went for it and I would never turn back…never turn back from that position, but obviously there’s a lot of hiccups. There’s a lot of things that you go through. And especially when you didn’t know, entrepreneurship was really the road you were going to go on, you hit a wall a lot of times and you know, you have to push through it yourself and learning.
It is really hard. I didn’t again, building the community I have now I have so much support, but I didn’t really have that in that visit. it was a very, you know, masculine business. I felt very, like I had to be know I had to be a strong woman and I had to be all these different things. That’s a little bit of me getting into my own business.
Like I said, I went through a really great business on the outside of a six figure business. It was awesome. It looked really good, but on the inside. I was really lost and didn’t have a lot of friends, so there was just a lot of things [00:04:00] I went through, during that time, but I don’t regret ever making that decision.
I always say if anything was to happen and I had to start over, I have my knowledge.
Being in a male dominated environment
Janene: So, you know, that’s a big part of it. I mean, that’s just part of life and growing up as we learn things, But just a couple of things along the way.
Right. And you know, when it comes to your thinking, what I thought was really a good point, we can pick this up is, you know, you said, I felt like I had to be this or that, because this was a very masculine environment. And I think a lot of women are faced with that. I know that, you know, people have told me, okay, you just have to run your business like a man.
And I’m curious, you know, what did that thinking? How did that. Help or hurt you in your business?
Kamille: Yeah, I mean, I’ve always been, like I said, I have master’s degrees. I’ve always been a very logical thinker. You know, I’m a science, math nerd. Like I, you know, I’ve always been a logical thinker. And so being very, you know, headstrong was not difficult for me, but at the same time I was in this like, go, go, go, you know, like 24, 7 needing to be flashy too.
That was a big thing in the industry I was in. How you look, obviously it’s fitness industry, you know what you drive, what you wear, the shoes. It was all about materialistic and probably living in that. And that wasn’t me. It never was me. I’m literally, I’m happy with sharing information in, you know, like I’m never being no matter how much money I have, I’ve always been.
Losing your way trying to do it all
And so like, it’s just, it just took me away from who I really was. I was like pulling away from the person that was because I felt like I needed to show it off. And it definitely was a good thing in a way, where my business did thrive. That part of it was great because I did push really hard. And especially in a first visit, you do have to put in more hours than [00:06:00] maybe, or your first couple of years of business, you have to put in more hours than you normally would.
But, you know, I was literally doing 14, 16 hours a day working constantly. And I just thought that that’s how it has to be. I can’t look another way. I can’t, I can’t listen. See me not coming in at four 30 in the morning. I can’t, it was all about what other people were thinking of me. And a lot of them were men.
So I just felt like that’s how I had to act to be. And I’m not saying that men don’t do that well, cause I noticed there were men that’s also same way and they know that they have to buy the flashy cars and they were leaving. Super expensive cars that they couldn’t even afford. And you’re just like, why are you doing this yourself?
You know, but it was all about the aesthetics rather than what your business was. And that was, I got lost in that.
Putting up a facade and it’s impact on your business
Janene: Right. And it’s, it’s, it’s very, it’s exhausting. So when you’re, cause I also went through a burnout in my last corporate job and when you’re trying to be brave and show a good front or, you know, keep up with the Joneses, as we say, if that’s what it is, whatever facade it is that you’re kind of putting there, it’s exhausting to keep that going over time.
So, you know, if, and it comes down, you know, in any context, whether it’s professional or otherwise, it’s a very difficult thing to do. That’s for sure. Yeah. So Kamille, how did this play into your pricing?
Kamille: Yeah, absolutely. So honestly, starting my first business, you know, you’re kind of trying to figure out how do I price myself?
Like, what do you know, what is, and I tried it in the beginning, you know, decided, okay, well, there are like, I went by my corporate, you know, You know, experienced, I kind of looked at that instead of people, these people are charging that much. Well, I’m not a corporate business. I’m not a big, because I’m just by myself.
I can’t charge that much
I can’t charge that much. And you know, so it was always like the little things that I was like, I would push my prices down because, you know, first of all, I was scared that I wouldn’t get clients. And then second of all, you know, I was going by these like prices that I knew from my experience in the corporate jet.
Well, they get that because people are going to go into a corporate gym, no matter what, and they’re going to probably sign up with the personal trainers there, you know, that’s not going to happen with me, you know? And there was a lot of different factors, including, yeah. How I felt about myself and being new in the business and, and all of these things.
It was hard to price myself at first
I definitely had a hard time pricing myself for a while. You know, I, I got in the first six months of my business. I, not that I was lucky, I worked really hard, but I was, I had people all week. By the time, like I literally couldn’t even take on more clients. And at that time I was like, okay, I think I can price more.
Like, obviously I have so many people coming to me that maybe I am too low. So people were waiting to be with me for me to realize that rather than me realizing I’m worth it. And you know, so through my, my journey there, obviously I went from really low ticket pricing. What would you consider more of a high ticket, you know, personal trainer, but it’s four years for me to get it wasn’t like an overnight process.
For the first year I definitely had really low end pricing and I was so fearful of all the time. That even if I raise my pricing, my current clients, weren’t going to stay on. And it took a lot of shift to understand that the people that see my worth will stay on. The people that know that I’m giving them my all they’re going to stay.
And the people that can’t, or don’t really see that are going to leave. And that’s okay. Because that one person is going to replace the other person, because I had such low ticket pricing in the first place. But again, this is four years of that business for me to realize, and about two years until I finally upped my prices, really, to a point where I deserve them.
All of them were willing to pay the higher price
That made it so much better for me. I felt coming in with like the point of like, I, you know, I’m worth it and, and my clients say it. And I don’t even think any of my clients left, but maybe one I don’t remember. All of them were willing to pay the higher price.
It was this powerful feeling for me to go, okay, what am I doing? These people see my work, they know what I give them on a daily basis. It was a process. It definitely was this whole process of going through. I definitely was way low ticket. Way underestimating myself in the beginning because I didn’t think I was worth it.
Or I didn’t have the experience either. Because I came from a corporate gym, not an independent gym. There was a lot of different factors that ran into that as I grew.
What’s it feel like when you’re underpriced?
Janene: How did it feel at the time that you were underpriced? How did that feel to you? Or did you even notice what it felt like?
Kamille: At the time, I don’t think I noticed. In the long term it did affect me because I was working so hard. And I was paying rent on a facility. Right. It was not cheap to pay rent and there were points where I was working 10 to 14 hour days with my class from 4:30 AM to 10:30 PM all day, at the gym, barely having time to pee. Literally working, working, working, barely eating, barely taking care of myself. I was a fitness instructor. I was in the industry and I was barely taking care of myself.
So I might have not noticed it in the first year or so. But it was hurting me. This is what led to the burnout in the end. Because I had gone so long, pushing myself for hours on end to barely maybe make rent and have my bills paid and not really even have an extra spending money.
That was a rough rough road because I knew I was working so hard and I have so many clients, but I wasn’t seeing the fruits of that labor. Right. So, yeah, definitely. It’s a good goal. I, might’ve not noticed it then, but you know, over the years it’s definitely started to progress that I didn’t, you know, hindering me personally.
Take learnings from the first business to the second
Janene: When it came to starting your second business, what is it you did differently that you think has made a big difference?
Kamille: I’m surrounding myself with people that were in the industry. I immediately went to a women’s conference and just surrounded myself, like two weeks after I sold my first business, I literally went through a woman’s conference two weeks later.
I got married and went. It was all in the same. And just surrounded myself with people that understood what I was going through and really showed me that I did have experience and I did have this already coming out of my first business and it was almost going to happen again to me.
I kind of stuttered on that. I’ve never been a coach before. I’ve been a personal trainer. For maybe the first six months I teetered on, do I have enough experience. All these things, but I also went into it knowing that I had this knowledge of what I had done initially.
I went into it knowing that I was worth it. It took a bit again, of course you’re working on this daily, right? You’re always telling you about the worth, it you’re valuable. I can tell you about when I definitely had first of all, a squad. People that were around me that I could go to when I was feeling like oh, my God can I really charge this much for one-on-one coaching? And they’d be like, yeah, girl.
That definitely helps. The second part was, having the past experience of knowing that I had under-priced myself and what I had gone through. This time, knowing if I did that again, I could end up in the same place. So that’s definitely changed my perspective.
A business is a personal development journey
Janene: Yeah. I think that’s why one reason in a why podcasts and shows like this are so important because you can you can kind of skip some of the painful bits if you reach out to people. If you listen to shows like this, if you understand some of these things upfront.
People always ask me, what’s one word of advice and if it’s not pricing related, then it’s usually get help. That [00:14:00] is the most important thing. That doesn’t mean you have to go out and spend loads of money unless you want to and are ready to, but you do need to, to bring in other people and, and learn from that.
That’s a really important part of the whole process. Starting your own business is the biggest self development journey, I’ve personally been on. Maybe if I had kids, it would be different, but yeah.
[00:14:30] Kamille: Yeah, absolutely. Definitely. My entrepreneurship journey is the biggest personal development situation that I have ever been through. [00:14:40] I would never take it back. I’ve learned so much about myself. I thought it was business. Business is separate than what you do on the inside, but believe in that 80% mindset, 20% strategy.
If your mindset is messed up, the business isn’t going to go in the right direction. If you think you’re not worth it, you’re not going to be worth it. So it doesn’t matter how much strategy you put into it. If you don’t believe in yourself you might as well let that strategy go right out the door. You can put out the most amazing packages and the most amazing things. If you don’t believe it, you don’t believe people are going to buy them. Then you might as well …get rid of those beautiful packages.
What’s the thing to remember from this conversation?
Janene: So if there’s something that you want people to know from this episode, when it comes to, you know, going back to soaring to new heights because you overcome the adversity of your own thinking, what is it that you really want people to understand?
Kamille: The most important thing is. When you sit down and especially if you’re sitting down to think about how much you want to charge people, when you sit down and you think about that, don’t look at what other people [00:16:00] are doing.
Yes. It’s great to know what’s out there. It’s great to understand what your lows and highs of the industry are. Of course that’s important. But don’t base yourself on what these other people are doing. Use that as a, maybe a meter, you know, what you want to do, you know what you’re going to be offering?
You have so much experience you just have to see it
Go through what your experience you have. I would tell women to write down 10 things about themselves that they, you know, that they can get there. And they’re always surprised. I’m like, oh my God. Like, oh, wow, wow, wow. Like I have all these things and I’m like, exactly. And that’s the thing that you’re probably going to give them quadruple, you know, whatever that amount and sit down and think about what you really feel.
It’s going to make you comfortable each month. And that it’s going to keep moving the needle forward for you in your business. If you say, okay. It’s a thousand dollars per client and you feel like that’s a comfortable amount. Don’t hinder on it. Don’t move back from it. And maybe even add tax because you probably deserve more than you’re actually telling yourself.
Just remember that if you’re doing a lot of work for people and you’re undervaluing yourself, you’re not going to be the person you need to be. It’s like when you feel valued, when you feel worthy, when you feel like you’re getting that energy from them, that’s their exchange to you.
That’s the energy. You’re going to be able to give back to them. That’s what you’re going to be able to pull. The less you’re getting the less you’re going to feel when you’re giving in with them and over a gleam in the beginning, it won’t feel that bad because you bought some clients. But over time, it will, it will weigh on you.
Undervaluing yourself will get you nowhere
But don’t undervalue yourself from the beginning, sit down and think about, okay, what is it that I’m bringing to the table? What is it that I have that other people don’t have? We are all [00:18:00] unique. We are all different. We all have something different to offer. So sit down and do that. Before you say he’s a low ticket, high ticket go.
Okay. Well, she’s new too. So I should price myself at that. [00:18:10] No, that doesn’t mean that maybe she’s undervaluing herself and you don’t want it.
Janene: Yeah, that’s exactly. I tell people all the time. It’s great to know what’s going on. Yeah. With your competition in the marketplace, but if you benchmark yourself against them, you have to know that they’re targeting the same people and offering the same value and dah, dah, dah, before you can do that, otherwise you run the risk of setting the wrong price.
So, no, actually I couldn’t, I couldn’t have said that better for myself. I really appreciate what you shared there. It is very important. So I hope those of you who are listening really take that to heart because. Finding the right price is as much about your customers as it is about yourself and what you need in your business, because you won’t be there to serve them later on.
If you don’t get it right upfront, that’s true.
Kamille: Don’t be afraid. This is how it works. It’s the exchange of energy. They want something from you. In order to get that from you, you need some sort of energy back and that’s what it is. Think of it that way, if that makes it easier.
I know sales can be scary, pricing can be scary to some people. It shouldn’t be.