Most people have issues with money. In fact, for most young businesses owners money issues can be a huge hurdle. When it comes to your business, often the biggest thing standing in your way is you and it’s all happening at a subconscious level. Therefore your job is to start recognizing when you’re in your own way and figure out how to shift things so you can progress. It’s also true when it comes to doing pricing in your business. Your mindset, your understanding of pricing even your issues with money and your ability to work through the blocks that are in your way are tantamount to you getting where you want to go.
That’s been true for me (yes I’ve dealt with money issues as well), for nearly any business owner and it’s most likely true for you too. Not only that, as you and your business evolve you will be faced with new opportunities and challenges that require you to….shift those money issues once again. That’s precisely what my guest in this episode shares with us.
In This Episode
Heidi Gruss is a licensed Psychotherapist and Transformation Strategist, she shares with us how her own mindset & issues with money impacted her pricing We discuss what happened, how she’s been able to shift things and what she still does today to stay on track. The work of an entrepreneur is never done, you just keep going further outside your comfort zone and find new ways to do it you hadn’t even imagined. Issues with money mindset is normal, what’s important is how you deal with them. That’s what Heidi has experienced, let’s listen and learn to her journey.
Podcast Episode Highlights
- 0:00 Intro
- 2:15 Getting to Know Heidi
- 4:25 The Value that Heidi’s clients Get
- 7:16 Pricing at the Beginning
- 13:36 Changing Your Perspective
- 16:24 Shifting of Mindset
- 21:01 Pricing and Sales Call
- 25:20 Wrapping It Up
“…early in my practice I was using those external cues to dictate my pricing. I.e. if everyone else is pricing there, I probably should be there too. I didn’t want to stand out. But my coach helped me see I was offering much more.” Heidi
“Time is very important to me. And if someone can get into results faster than someone else, I have no problem paying a little bit more because ultimately time also a equates to money.” Heidi
“We do have to be careful if we use time based pricing. As you become more efficient in what you do, if you’re using strictly time based pricing, then you would charge less, but they’re getting more value out of it. That’s something for people who are listening or watching us to be aware of as well.” Janene
“Be like Nike I say, “Just do It”. Sometimes that is the best answer. As scary as it feels, it’s the best way to work through whatever it is you are feeling about it – just try it. If you mess up, then you have to the opportunity to try again.” Janene
How to Connect with Heidi
Book Recommendation: Slight Edge by Jeff Olson
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Welcome everyone. And of course, welcome to today’s guest. Heidi Gruss. Hi Heidi.
Janene: We’re so excited to have you here with us today. What I’d like to do is I’d like to get started with a few rapid fire question.
Heidi: Okay, bring on.
Janene: All right, here we go. First of all, where are you joining us from today, Heidi?
Heidi: I am in the very small state in the Southeastern corner of Connecticut.
Janene: I used to live there. I think we talked about that recently though. And what is, what would you call or what do people tell you is your superpower?
Getting to Know Heidi
Heidi: Oh, my superpower. People definitely comment about how organized I am. How I get so much done in a day. I think they’re pretty impressed by that. Probably similar to a lot of your listeners, I’m not just a business owner, not just a psychotherapist. I’m a mom, I’ve got three active kids. I would say it’s probably around my productivity and efficiency.
Janene: Okay. Super excellent. We’ll call you productive woman. Productive lady, da da, da. Captain productivity. Cool. What’s one interesting thing that people don’t know about you.
Heidi: I actually think people don’t realize this is that I almost look forward to having difficult conversations with people. And I know that sounds almost bizarre, but what I’ve realized is that so often those difficult conversations, they just give us so much relief and freedom and it’s like, we stay locked up like afraid, apprehensive, so maybe even scared of what’s gonna come from the conversation.
And I’ve just, I’ve released all of that and have found so much freedom in being able to just initiate those conversations and look at it as an opportunity to learn. That’s why I could almost call it my superpower too. My attitude about it is dramatically shifted, I think in the last five to seven years.
Janene: Yeah, I think a lot of times our anticipation of what that conversation will be like is more traumatic than the conversation itself in some ways, I’m not saying all the time, but quite often.
Heidi: Well, no, I completely get what you’re saying. It’s like, if you let too much time just linger there, it like overshadows that conversation and it then becomes such a bigger entity in your mind, you know? So, yeah.
The Value that Heidi’s Clients Get
Janene: Very interesting. Let’s talk a little bit maybe you can share with us one, what you do and two what’s the value ultimately that your clients get out of working with you?
Heidi: A little bit about what I do. I am a licensed psychotherapist. I’ve been in practice for more than two decades and in the last three years also branched out and started delivering more high ticket coaching programs as a transformation strategist. And that really came from my own observation that there are a ton of people out there who are experiencing distress from different circumstances or one aspect of their life, they don’t qualify for a clinical diagnosis necessarily.
But they certainly need the intervention or the strategy around navigating whatever it is that they’re going through. So that was really the catalyst to get me going and to start developing, a program, the transformation methodology to serve my audience.
Peace of Mind
Heidi: So what they get from it. Here’s the thing. It’s filled with mindset transformation, so you’re going to feel more confident you’re going to be more in tune with your abilities and your level of competency and all of that. But really the thing that I think we undervalue, that at the end, everyone is saying, is really the peace of mind.
Peace. I mean, because the whole program that or one major pillar of the transformation methodology is about shifting my client’s focus away from all of those external cues, all of those external pressures and shifting them back to self.
Janene: I love what you said about the value ultimately is the peace of mind that people get. And I think that’s a case with in many different say aspects of I don’t know if you call yourself a coach in part, but when people are working with say life coaches it’s really about peace of mind sometimes also about removing the hurdles they’re getting in your way.
But I think that’s a really good thing in terms of value, to be able to bring people these days, anytime, actually, right.
Heidi: Because there’s always that inner conflict. It’s like I think I want this. I think I desire this. I think I need this in my life. But then why won’t you give yourself permission to receive those things or to go after those things? That’s where it’s external focus really gets in the way.
Janene: Excellent. I’m sure we’ll come back to that as we go through our discussion today, but I’d like to rewind. When you first started your business, I’m curious, what led you to start your business and what happened when you first had to set some prices for that?
Pricing at the Beginning – Big Money Issues
Heidi: The pricing story is hysterical. I knew that I wanted to offer some type of step by step process, to create some type of simple yet strategic methodology.
But, I didn’t have the term methodology at the time, even thought that’s what I wanted to create for my clients. So that in the end they would have sustainable change. So I set out to, and I designed some very unsophisticated coaching programs in the beginning, right?
Cause hindsight’s 2020, but at the time I thought they were pretty dang good. I remember I was working with a coach and she told me. When you’re in that sales conversation, you’re going to say… And how would you like to pay for that?
Would you like to put that on a visa, MasterCard or Discover. I’m looking at my coach, like a deer in headlights. You want me to say what? Like the whole pricing piece. The whole asking for someone to pay for what it was I created was so intimidating to me. Flash! – issue with money. So then I called one of my gal pals who’s also an entrepreneur and I was telling her about the coaching session. She’s like, let me. Did she say, like, I, what do you, what do you want, how do you wanna pay for this? Do you wanna put it on a visa, MasterCard or discover? And I’m like, yeah. How did you know that? She’s like, that’s how I close every single one of my calls.
Like I’m asking them, okay, we’ve just discussed this thing you want it. And so how would you like to pay for it? I’m like, oh my goodness.
Janene: So Heidi, why do you think that you felt that way or you had that reaction?
Exchange of Money
Heidi: It felt so forward and very presumptive. I was completely underestimating the entire conversation I had leading the client up to that point, where I’m then just finalizing that the fact that we’re going to initiate this transaction. You want what I have, I wanna give it to you, but there’s this exchange of money that happens.
I made that bigger in my head. It’s an exchange of money. It’s a transaction at the time. It felt like so much more. That was one of my biggest issues with money.
Janene: It’s quite common for people to have this issue with money when they’re starting out. Yeah. It’s something that they have to come to terms with. How did you deal with it then?
Heidi: You know, what it taught me was we all have money stories. We all have stories about money, about how, what justifies, how we price things out. We all have stories about money and our self-worth. I know a big one for me was that I felt like I had to work hard to demonstrate that I was then I guess, worthy of receiving that money or service was worthy of that money. Issues with money, right?
But there was a big piece of needing to work hard and prove it’s like, well, here are all the things I’ve done then it was so hard if people ever challenged, like, well, but it doesn’t have this, or, but you’re not really talking about this.
And it was like, But look at everything that I have done, look at everything that you’re getting look at, you know? Yeah. I had to really unlock that and rewrite that story in order to break free from this money issue.
How I Assign my Price Point
Janene: Right. Before you did this program, you were a therapist and were those prices, set by the health insurance companies. Some people don’t really have to get into this task or this activity around setting a price themselves. They just take from what the health insurance companies tell them they can charge. Is that similar for you or was it a little bit different?
Heidi: Comparing the clinical payment process. I mean, we all have an out of pocket, price point that we assign and I think early on in my clinical practice, it was the same thing. It was very much, I was using those external cues and marker to then dictate my pricing, where it was like, okay, well, everybody in my network is assigning this price point so I should probably be there too, cuz I don’t wanna stand out and I had a coach say to me, she’s like, But I want you to think about some of the feedback you get from your clients and are you providing them the same level of service, the same quality of service as the other people in their network.
And I had literally just finished with one of my favorite clients, we only worked together for three months. She kept saying, I have gotten more from you in three months than I spent a year and a half with another therapist. And I mean, I was in no better of a place, you know?
So it was. The timing of that feedback, along with this experience I just had and her progress was, it was market, you know? I felt like, yeah, that’s a really important piece here because I know when I need help.
Time is Important
Heidi: Time is very important to me. And if someone can get into results faster than someone else, I have no problem paying a little bit more because ultimately time also a equates to money.
Never mind the relief that you’re looking for from whatever the problem or circumstance is that you’re going through. It was a huge aha.
Janene: Right. We also, I’d like to mention this since it was brought up. We do have to be careful if we use time based pricing. As you become more efficient in what you do, if you’re using strictly time based pricing, then you would charge less, but they’re getting more value out of it. That’s something for people who are listening or watching us to be aware of as well.
Heidi: I mean, absolutely. When people come to work with me, I have to be very clear that they’re working with someone with two decades’ worth of experience here. Right. And then I’m a Transfer of human behavior.
Right. And that’s why I’m so good as a transformation strategist as well. There are so many transferable skills. You have to look at everything that you’re bringing to the table. You know, all of that experience, all of that brilliance that you’ve collected along the way. So it can never be an hourly exchange, you know, there’s so many, so much time for this dollar amount. It’s really the experience that you’re offering your client. Yeah.
Changing Your Perspective
Janene: Yeah. That’s a very good point. So, so how did you go about changing your perspective or changing your mindset? Assuming that’s what you did. maybe I’m asking the wrong question here. What did you start doing differently is maybe a better question to ask.
Heidi: With regard to pricing?
Heidi: Yeah. So even still to this day, because where I was even six months ago is at a very different place in terms of price point. And I encourage all of your listeners to always be reevaluating that because you’re only adding more expertise. Every time you go and offer another program or service service.
But I am every morning I address my money stories. That is one of the things I do. I’ve got, affirmations. Then I write out, I write them. I read them. I say them. Sometimes I even put little post-it notes around my computer. I also rewrite a money story though.
Janene: I’ll show you mine. I’m the best person for this.
Heidi: Yes, we all have these Post-Its.
Other thing is, as I rewrite the story, it’s like three or four sentences. But one of the sentences that I took from a book that I read it’s I think it’s the power of the subconscious mind or something like that. Okay. It was this line that said, “it is my right to be rich, happy and successful.”
Address the Block – Your Money Story
Heidi: Now let me tell you, when I first started writing that line, this is like years ago now. Right? When I read the line, I was like, oh my God. I don’t think I can say that. It is right. Like it felt so self-righteous, you know? Yes, it is my right to be happy. Yes, it is my right to be successful. But rich felt like, I don’t know, there is a stressing now I affirm that every single day.
I say this to my clients. I’m like, can you say this? Can you rattle this off? And really be in a place of confidence as you say this, if not, there’s something there and if you don’t address the block, You’re going to sabotage your opportunity to be at that income level that you are at. I always say you gotta step into the fear to feel the magic. I love that. So that is how I continue to cultivate that.
Janene: And what, what has been sort of, what are the results from working on that and starting to shift that, what is, I mean, there’s, there’s concrete results and then there’s also what’s and I don’t wanna say concrete, I wanna say there’s tangible and intangible results. I’m curious, what, what shifted for you?
Heidi: I think it really is my mindset around money.. and that’s what I think you’re asking right.
Shifting of Mindset – Leaving your Money Story Behind
Janene: I’m curious, what does having shifted your mindset? Does it physically feel different? Do you approach tasks differently? The results that it’s, you know, what really is the difference in the end for you?
Heidi: Look at our economy in the United States. Like there’s a lot going on. Inflation, people are very concerned about stock market and investment accounts and all of that.
There is an inner calm within me. I don’t know how else to describe this. It’s like, We’re gonna get through this, whatever it is we’re gonna be okay. We’ve never not been okay. I’m not gonna stressed that all of a sudden now. We’re gonna be okay. For some reason,
I don’t have any type of scarcity mindset. There are times when family members will say things about money and I’m like, I’m not going there. I literally say that, I go, I’m not going there and I’m not even entertaining that as a possibility. Because all that does is it creates overwhelm.
It creates anxiety and stress. It makes you move to a far end of a spectrum in terms of like overextending yourself and I’m just not gonna do that. I’m not going to get on that roller coaster. It’s being really clear of those like emotional boundaries. As well, because that’s part of that’s self-sabotaging behavior.
Just look at money as like, there’s always the opportunity to earn more money. It’s not that I don’t value money. I very much do. And I am very frugal and mindful about how I spend my money. But that’s not coming from a place of scarcity. That’s coming from a place of being smart. So there’s also just this idea of there’s always the opportunity to make more money, right.
Issues with Money and the Link to Pricing
Janene: Cool. I love that. I think the mindset around, money and mindset or success in worthiness and your mindset and their link to pricing is extremely strong.
And so it’s always interesting to see how different people approach confronting that if you will, and shifting those things for themselves and what they get out of it. And I think you’re right. It often brings people a much more ease whereas they may have fought with or procrastinated against, or, you know, the doing things in that area.
Now they’re like, okay, now I need to do it. I just do it. And it’s not like this big thing anymore. And I think that as an aspect that makes life easier for you, right?
Heidi: Yeah. I also think, it’s really easy as an entrepreneur to be focused on income goals. And that is important, we all have an income goal, but if you’re just focused on the equation, right. How many clients at what price point is gonna get me to this amount? It’s like, you can get fixated on that. And then you’re just worried about getting the client.
It is Just Going to Happen
Heidi: For me, I try to move away from that and really focus on what are the things that I know I need to be doing to guarantee the access to the clients. And then that’s just gonna happen. Like the rest of that equation is just going to happen. So for me, it’s like, how am I branding myself? How am I drawing visibility to my business?
How am I conducting conversations? I mean, collaborative conversations with people knowing all of my professional contacts are also my referral sources. Really looking at where I have a greater sense of control. I can’t make a buying decision for a potential client unless I remove the opportunity for them to buy. That’s the only way I can control that. But doing all of these other things is naturally going to yield more clients in my direction. If you’ve worked through those issues with money of course.
Janene: Right. Yeah. Those are the activities that are generating buzz, if you will. And putting people front and center to hear what Heidi has to bring to the world and how you can help them with whatever it is they’re seeking to transform or get help.
Cool. So we’re gonna start wrapping this up. I have a few wrap up questions. And the first one is, if you think about the topic that we’re talking about today and our conversation, what’s one thing you’d like people to take away from our discussion today.
Pricing and Sales Call
Heidi: One thing I’d like people to take away is with regard to pricing and sales calls. I don’t think that you’re ever a hundred percent ready to do it. But you’re going to learn so much by doing. Rather than thinking… I have to keep listening to podcasts or I need to go through this additional course after you’ve already done probably a half a dozen.
Now you just, you gotta go and do it. When you’re hesitating it’s often linked to issues with money. Hopefully they’re working with someone who’s saying that. Let’s go and do it right now. I know I’ve done that with clients live, like, come on. Let’s let’s do a sales call, right where I’m right here with you. And I’m gonna process this with you and we’re gonna go through it.
Literally after they’ve gone through that process, they’re like, thank you for making me do that. I just needed to do it. So yeah, we learned by just do it.
Janene: Be like Nike, “do it”, that slogan, just do it. Just do it. Sometimes that is the best answer. And as area, as it feel as scary as it feels, that is the best way to work through whatever it is you are feeling about it is to just try it. And if you mess it up, then you have the opportunity to try it again.
Heidi: Exactly right. Oh my gosh. Yes.
Heidi’s Business Advice
Janene: I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that. Heidi, what’s the best business advice that you’ve been given over the years?
Heidi: When you put best in there? I think the best business advice that I’ve been given is to operate from a place of 70% of perfection is success. And I think that kind of goes along with just do it, but it’s like really there’s never gonna be anything that you feel went perfectly.
I started onboarding a new team member last night and we were talking about this exact topic that even something that I approved from two months ago, you know, I thought, oh yes, this workbook module looks beautiful. Right. And it just happened to go back and look at it recently.
I’m like, I don’t really like the flow of this at all, but like at the time I was like, oh my gosh, this is perfect. You’re never going to like be done with something. Everything is always in a state of revision. Including ourselves. right.
Like not revision but growth, we’re always developing and growing. So just be good. Be good with good.