Celebrating the Podcast with Guests & Listeners

Help me in celebrating the podcast, 99 episodes of Live with The Pricing Lady.

When it finally dawned on me that I’d done nearly 100 episodes, I couldn’t really believe it. Have I really come that far and been doing this that long. It almost feels like yesterday that I started. An entrepreneur’s journey is by no means an easy one. But when you can stick with it the rewards are many. And I’ve asked three very special guests to join me in celebrating the podcast as we approach the 100th episode.

Amanda Berlin, has been a guest more than once on the show, she was also the first coach I worked with in my business. She always has great insights and an interesting way of expressing things. It’s such a pleasure to have her joining me.

One of the impressions I had of Dr. Carrie Graham, after she was a guest on the show was her ability to share so openly for the better of you listeners. Such authenticity can be hard to find, she does it with both grace and power. Something we can all do with more of.

Last but far from least, Simone Köchli. Her passion for sustainability and making an impact is contagious. She’s a follower of the show and I remember during one of our conversation she shared how she went through so many episodes to really understand pricing better for her, her co-founders and the business.

In This Episode

They are each amazing in their own right, and lucky me (and you) I’ve brought them here together so we can learn from their lives and experience. Very few podcasts make it beyond 10 episodes. This pricing podcast is celebrating as we approach 100 episodes of great content. The guests share their reflections on the show, their expertise and their own learnings from being an entrepreneur. Enjoy the show.

Podcast Episode Highlights

  • 0:00 Intro
  • 2.38 Getting to Know the Guests
  • 3:06 Childhood dreams  & aspirations
  • 7.46 Best course you ever took
  • 11.51 What’s the value you bring clients
  • 16.43 Reflections as a previous guest
  • 23.41 Insights from a follower
  • 26.07 The whole of your experience
  • 29.29 Something you’d like to see on the show
  • 32.59 What led you to start your business?
  • 37.33 Tip from Carrie
  • 42.24 Lesson learned from Simone
  • 43.34 What motivates Amanda?
  • 52.35 Wrapping it up

Favorite Quotes – Celebrating the Podcast

“(being on the show) gave me the opportunity to recognize that what’s easy for me is not easy for someone else. I bring decades of experience in a singular task. That has a lot of value and I’m handing that over to someone who’s starting with zero.” Dr. Carrie Graham

Don’t limit yourself in terms of, this is what I’m choosing to do today. I have a wide range of skill sets. I’ve chosen to focus on one part for my business. Instead look at all of the things you’re drawing from to offer the service. Acknowledge that and charge for that. It has supplemental value.” Dr. Carrie Graham

“It’s easy to undervalue the things that aren’t directly related to what you do now. To assume they have no value. Yet, it’s extremely important to how you deliver the value you do and to consider that in your pricing.” Janene Liston

We all have something very important to contribute. If we don’t have the tools & the fortitude to put it out there… then the world will be missing what we are meant to contribute. The people who were meant to support, will not have the support that we can offer them..” Amanda Berlin

“Startups tend to do everything, try to do everything by themself. Ask for help. Be willing also to pay others, to help you. Please don’t try to do everything by yourself because you lose so so much time. That is also value.” Simone Köchli

“You have to get to a point where you’re comfortable talking about pricing and value. In fact, you should talk about value first and price second – make that a golden rule in your head.” Janene

Episode Links

Reach out to these Amazing Ladies. A big thank you to them for joining me on the show once again and helping me celebrate the podcast and this incredible milestone.

Amanda Berlin | Website | LinkedIn

Simone Köchli | Loopi.ch | LinkedIn

Dr. Carrie Graham | Website | Linkedin

Carrie mentioned a download on the topic of alternatives to offering a course. Grab a copy here.

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Episode Transcript

Janene: Hello everyone and welcome to Live with The Pricing Lady, I’m excited to be here celebrating the podcast with you. For those of you new to the show, this is a Pricing Podcast for entrepreneurs, startups and small businesses. I’m going to kick this off with the very easy question, which is where are you joining us from today? So, Simone, would you like to start?

Simone: I’m joining today from Zürich Switzerland.

Janene: Excellent. Amanda.

Amanda: I am in, Weehaken, New Jersey right across the river from Manhattan, super

Janene: And Carrie?

Carrie: I am in the Charlotte Metro area in North Carolina.

Janene: Excellent. I’ll also have them introduce themselves a little bit later, but first we’ll continue with some rapid fire questions.

As a child what did you want to be when you grew up?

Janene: Carrie, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Carrie: I wanted to be an attorney that traveled the world. I don’t know what they did, but that’s what I wanted to do.

Janene: I love it. Today, Carrie is a specialist in adult learning and a consultant in this area. We’ll find out more about that as we go on. Amanda, what is it you wanted to be when you grew up?

Amanda: That’s a great question. I don’t know if I had a specific occupation that I wanted to be… but I remember watching Troop Beverly Hills and because they were so abundant that was sort of like the joke of that or the conceit of that film. I was like, whatever I need to do to have a life like that, that’s what I wanna do.

Janene: It was less the occupation and more the results.

Amanda: Like the dad was a tire salesman. Maybe that was part of my dream. I don’t know.

Janene: Amanda is an expert in visibility and PR. She’s also the first coach I ever worked with when I started my own business. We’ll hear more from her. Simone, what were your aspirations when you were a young child?

Simone: That’s easy. I always wanted to be an inventor when I was a child. I tried weird experiments thinking that I invent something of the future, luckily didn’t get to the market.

Janene: That’s amazing. Simone is one of the co-founders of Loopi, which their aspirations are to create a fully sustainable stroller or a pram for children. They’ve worked on a rental business model to help parents, the staff having to purchase strollers. They can rent them. She’ll tell us more about that later.

What was your first job ever?

Janene: Carrie, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Carrie: I wanted to be an attorney that traveled the world. I don’t know what they did, but that’s what I wanted to do.

Janene: Today, Carrie is a specialist in adult learning and a consultant in this area. We’ll find out more about that as we go on. Amanda, what is it you wanted to be when you grew up?

Amanda: That’s a great question. I don’t know if I had a specific occupation that I wanted to be… but I remember watching Troop Beverly Hills and because they were so abundant that was sort of like the joke of that or the conceit of that film. I was like, whatever I need to do to have a life like that, that’s what I wanna do.

Janene: It was less the occupation and more the results.

Amanda: Like the dad was a tire salesman. Maybe that was part of my dream. I don’t know.

Janene: Amanda is an expert in visibility and PR. She’s also the first coach I ever worked with when I started my own business. We’ll hear more from her. Simone, what were your aspirations when you were a young child?

Simone: That’s easy. I always wanted to be an inventor when I was a child. I tried weird experiments thinking that I invent something of the future, luckily didn’t get to the market.

Janene: That’s amazing. Simone is one of the co-founders of Loopi, which their aspirations are to create a fully sustainable stroller or a pram for children. They’ve worked on a rental business model to help parents, the staff having to purchase strollers. They can rent them. She’ll tell us more about that later.

What’s the best or most interesting course you’ve taken Carrie?

Janene: What’s the most interesting course you’ve ever taken or oddest for that matter?

Carrie: I would say something totally unrelated to the work that I do. I took a dance course. It really stretched me in terms of my personality and it was an amazing workout, but it was totally removed from any work-related thing that I was doing. And hands down, it was the best experience I ever had. I always long to get back to that, but right. Yeah.

Janene: Right. That’s funny. Simone, what kind of interesting course have you taken?

What’s the best or most interesting course you’ve taken Simone?

Simone: It’s some years it’s a couple of years ago, but I did a very interesting course that was actually held by the champion, like the memory, how you call it the memory champion of Europe. Also, with the best memory and recording.

In this course, it was really about techniques of remember as much as you can. Yeah, I can use. That’s really that you definitely can use that in private and in job life.

Janene: Yeah, exactly.

Simone: Remember all kinds of things. Starting from, from random numbers up to things that actually make sense.

Janene: Oh, that sounds like fun. Doesn’t it?

Simone: It can be fun. Yeah. Cool. You have to make it fun in order to really remember it.

Janene: Right. There’s some things I’ll never forget. Not because they’re interesting things to remember, but because of the Ponic device that they used to remember them, right?

Yeah, exactly. Amanda, what course have you taken?

What’s the best or most interesting course you’ve taken Amanda?

Amanda: I echo what Carrie said some of the most transformational moments I’ve had have been when I’ve been in like movement classes and dance and things like that. I used to take a class that religiously that paired aerobics with affirmations that you say out loud which was incredible.

But I will say the first thing that came to mind when you asked this question, University. I took a class called the law of the press. I was a journalism major and we studied I don’t know if it was all of the Supreme court cases that had to do with the media, but… it was fascinating. And even to this day, I remember, I don’t remember what all of the cases were called, the names and all that, but I remember, the reasoning and the rational.

For some of these cases and they’re still relevant to this day, especially with a lot that’s going on, like some of the defamation cases that have been taking place here in the US with respect to families that were impacted by misinformation. There’s just tons of tons of examples that are still relevant to these things that I learned about early on.

Janene: Right. That’s cool. I love taking classes and for me, there’s two things that came to mind. Once when I was in Connecticut, I took a hot air bone ING class. Oh, fascinating. We learned all about patterns and stuff like that. Afterwards, we took a flight.

It was 14 that day…it was really cold..

The other one is my favorite, one of my favorite courses in university was earthquake and plate tectonics. Which I also wow. Completely fascinating.

Carrie: My goodness.

What’s the Value You Bring Clients

Janene: We’d like to get a little bit more information about what you do in your business and the value that you bring people.

Janene: Simone, why don’t you share with us a little bit more about Loopi and what you do there?

Simone: Sure. Since no stroller fits all of the family’s needs as a child grows up and activities change, one in four families actually ends up buying more and three strollers. I think that’s a huge waste of money and resources.

At Loopi, we offer straws in a subscription service, and that means parents can choose the strollers that they like. They use it and simply send it back if they would like to exchange the model or return the stroller. And in this way, this is really a flexible, convenient and sustainable solution for the families of today and tomorrow.

Janene: Yeah, this is brilliant. I absolutely love what they do. If you wanna find out more about Loopi, it’s currently just here in Switzerland, I believe correct. Simone that’s correct. And find out more about that. Excellent.

Retaining Information = Applying Skill Sets

Janene: Carrie, why don’t you share with us a bit more about what you do as an adult learning consultant and the value you bring your clients.

Carrie:  I work with talent development and as well as learning and development professionals who have existing content. And I guide them in improving adult learner engagement because once people are engaged, they’re more likely to retain information. If they’re retaining information, they are going to appropriately apply those skill sets.

I take my PhD in adult learning theory and interpret the theories and the research for businesses and identify ways in which they can apply the theories. So that in their end users are fully engaged in learning they’re building learning experiences so that people understand and retain the information and then they get to go off and do the thing that they’re learning.

That’s powerful for businesses as well as the end user.

Janene: That’s incredible. Thank you for sharing. Education is so important at all levels. I’m a lifelong learner and very curious about everything. One of those people, when I go to the dentist, I’m like, what does that do? Or the eye doctor. What’s that one do? I applaud anything that can help people to learn and develop themselves better. Excellent.

Carrie: I just wanna say Janene, one of the things that people don’t give appreciation to is that learning occurs informally and in the workplace. The other element that I bring to the table is helping people recognize learning is happening everywhere.

Janene: Absolutely. Very good. You can find out more about Carrie, https://drcarriegraham.com/ and in the show notes, we’ll include their contact information, LinkedIn links and website addresses as well. Thank you Carrie for sharing.

Raise Voices using Free Tactics

Janene: Amanda, why don’t you tell us more about the value of visibility and PR expert can bring.

Amanda: Well, thank you. Yeah, so I help clients who feel like they’re lost in the noise, a common refrain that I hear from my clients, and this happens over and over again.

It’s amazing to me that people say the same thing, but it’s this. I’m really good at what I do, but not enough people know about me. And I work with brands who have a story to tell. I work with people who are service oriented, who want to put good information out there and I help them raise their voices using free tactics.

That we use in the PR world. That’s what public relations is. You, it’s not advertising, so you’re not paying for the opportunity. You’re earning the opportunity. I help translate those tried and true tactics from the traditional PR world to small businesses so that my clients can raise their visibility, be seen, heard, understood for what they can bring to their clients and thus improve the bottom line.

That’s always the goal.

Janene: Yeah, exactly. Excellent. As I said before, Amanda was one of the first coaches that I worked with in my business to help me clarify my message and gain more visibility. I recommend you ahead on over to www.amandaberlin.com and check that out as well.

Reflections as a Previous Guest – This is a Pricing Podcast After All

Janene: All right. Now I’d like to talk a little bit with Amanda, Carrie, cuz they were, have both been guests on my show previously. This is Pricing Podcast and my guests share their pricing journeys. Carrie, when you think about your experience coming on the show and reflecting on your own pricing journey, what was that? What comes to mind or what was that like for you.

Carrie: Honestly, Janene it was an opportunity for me to have really candid conversations about something that in our society we don’t talk about.

As an African American woman, to talk about money and publicly. It’s just not something that we do. For me leaving our conversation, well, let me back up during our conversation it was it, I felt an opportunity and was moved to be candid and to be vulnerable in talking about what my struggle was. And recognizing that I’m not my struggle is simply mine, but other people have their own struggles around pricing the value of their service or their products. And resolving that. It was really when I left our conversation, I went back and listened to it again. It was an opportunity for me to spend more time thinking about my growth and appreciating my growth. For me, that has been the greatest value is through our conversation.

I was able to grow not only for my business, but more importantly, personally.

It Took Me by Surprise

Janene: Well, that’s great. When you look back on that conversation, is there anything that surprised you about your experience that you had along the way?

Carrie: The quote that you used to advertise for it was it took me by surprise when I saw it, it said I priced for ease and I was pricing for ease.

I was like, should I be embarrassed by that? Or should I not be embarrassed by that? And then I thought, well, it just is what it is. It really gave me the opportunity to recognize that what’s easy for me is not easy for the next person. I also bring decades actually over two decades of experience in a singular task.

That other people don’t have. And so, yes, it is easy for me to talk about. It’s easy for me to do. And that’s a lot of value. 25 plus years is a lot of value that I’m gonna hand over to someone who has zero to start with. And so from that regard, it, it really helped me realize my value. There’s I think there’s a lot to be said when you’re thinking about a concept versus when you’re articulating that same concept. It really did a lot for me personally.. but that immediately translated into my business and my business’s growth. Thank you for the opportunity.

Own that expertise, Own your value

Janene: Well, that was one of the things that I really enjoyed about the episode was how forthcoming you were about that.

I know I ask people to come on the show and talk about their pricing journey and it’s not an easy thing necessarily for people to do. I’ve actually had some people say, no thank you. Over the years that they didn’t want to. Totally fine. Right. I’m not here to force that on anyone.

But I know, I see firsthand how much people struggle with the topic and I know other people have done what you did.

Janene: Amanda, when you’ve been on the show, what was your sort of reflections on your own pricing journey as you expressed them when you were on the show?

Amanda: Yeah, absolutely. First, I just wanna take a second. I feel like everything that Carrie says, I just wanna echo that. I talked to a new client yesterday who’s coming into the business. And she also said that she has, 20 years of subject matter expertise.

 I as well. And Janene, I know you as well. We all have been steeped in this, this world of, our area of expertise for decades. I believe that this is a moment for us to own that expertise and to and to really own our value in so much that we have been practicing for all of this time.

Are You Experiencing a “Prisis” = Crisis of Price

Amanda: I love seeing thematically things coming up over and over again in different context. I wanted to highlight that because I see those as like little signs absolutely. For me, Janene being on your show, particularly the second time. Highlighted for me the kind of growth journey that I’ve had. I remember when you asked me to come on the second time I was like, this is perfect because I recently experienced a “prisis”, a crisis of price.

Janene: Now, I have a new term. Thank you.

Amanda: Because I had grown and raised my rates. But I still had this like one service that was not kind of compliant with the others pricing wise. It didn’t make sense. I needed to figure out how I was going to kind of leapfrog that service forward pricing wise so that it was cohesive with my other offerings.

I believe that was like the real turning point in my business. Right. In owning my expertise, owning the value of what I offer and really, you know, bringing a professional lens to the pricing structure so that it wasn’t haphazard. It was intentional and it made sense.

Janene: Wow. That’s amazing. That brings a good point across to people or something I think is important is, it’s (pricing) one of those things that just, when you think you got your pricing, right, the universe has a way of throwing something different at you. And you’re like, oh man, here I am again.

But you have this toolkit of experience from before that you can apply to it. And that’s probably one of the most important things, you keep building that muscle or that skill to be able to adapt to those situations. Excellent.

Insights From A Follower

Janene: Simone, you have not yet been a guest. I emphasize yet a guest but you’ve been a follower and a listener of the show. What led you to the show.

Simone: I started watching the show when pricing really got relevant for us.

We were all so overwhelmed, the team, our pricing, our offer. No one in our startup had any clue about pricing at all. I started to look around for an expert and pricing coach. What people in my generation normally doing is they start using Google search and YouTube.

That’s where I saw all your great learning videos.  Most things that I found about pricing were purely based on math and numbers. I saw a huge difference in what you were offering, because learning from you, convinced me to look at pricing as the whole picture. Also including psychology behavior. Pricing and that really convinced me and yeah. Through your videos I could really learn a lot of aspects about that too.

Janene: Simone, were you also involved in the Swiss sustainability challenge?

Simone: That’s true. That’s when I first heard about you. But I’m the person that always would do research before.

Janene: Do you have a favorite episode from the ones that you listen to that you’d like to share with people or favorite message?

Simone: A lot of your episodes are great. There’s not one that I would like point out and say this is the best one. But what was really helpful for me was the willingness to pay. Look what customers are willing to pay and where dive more deep in how to get results from your potential customers. You gave a lot of very helpful tips that I’ve never came across anywhere else.

The Whole of Your Experience

Janene: Carrie, what’s the most important message that you have for other business owners when it comes to understanding the value that they deliver?

Carrie: Oh, this is such a great question. I would say is taking stock and being reflective, really? It’s looking at your past experiences. If we think about people who are offering a service, think about critically, think about the extent to which you do your work and the knowledge that you have.

Don’t limit yourself in terms of, this is what I’m choosing to do today. I have a wide range of skill sets. I’ve chosen to focus on one part for my business. But when I look at all of the things that I’m drawing from to offer the service in my business, I have to acknowledge that and I have to charge for that because it has supplemental value.

I would encourage business owners who are struggling with pricing or are looking to make a change in their pricing, to look at the value of all of what you’re doing. and have done. I can confidently say there will be elements of every part of your prior experience that come into play so much so that I’m very clear about my services, but there was something that Amanda said a couple minutes ago and it just I’m like, oh yeah, I do.

Needs to be Incorporated in the Poll

Carrie: I do X, Y, and Z. And I used to Offered as a service, but it needs to be incorporated in the poll. I literally was trying to like write a note without looking down but I did, right. Like I wrote a note cause I’m like, yes, I do. I am an auditor. Like that’s how, when you’re creating learning experiences, that’s how you improve through auditing your work and assessing your work.

Why did I step away from that? When the reality is, it needs to be included in the body of work that I do. So. It look at your, look at the totality of your work.

Janene: Yeah. It always amazes me how clients will come to me and they’ll be like, well, I don’t know how to assess the value because what I did in the past, isn’t this.

Just because it’s not the same thing doesn’t mean that it doesn’t have meaning and value. Almost anything does. I studied engineering in university and while I don’t design buildings anymore, I still use bridges in my presentations. And I still use, you know, I just used my problem-solving skills that I learned from.

I think you’re absolutely right. It’s easy to discount those things or to assume that they have no value. And it’s extremely important to remember, to incorporate them and see how they fit in different context. Yeah.

Carrie: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks Amanda. I know you didn’t know, but thank you.

Something You’d Like to See on the Show

Janene: Love it. Amanda, who would you love to see come on the show and talk about their pricing journey?

Amanda: Interesting. That’s a good question. I think that one person who comes to mind is a friend of mine who runs an all women owned and operated virtual law firm.

She has a lot of personnel. I mean, a lot by our sort of solo entrepreneur. Small business standards and she pay their, they are full-time staff. I think what I would be interested in, whether it’s her, someone else I’d be interested in hearing from a business owner who is operating with staff.

Okay. With kind of like in the us, there’s a a call there’s like a pressure I suppose, to offer benefits. I’d be so curious how you, and this is, would be self-serving how one kind of elevates to that next level of operating a business and how your pricing needs to reflect your desire to have full-time staff.

And provide them with all of the accommodations that a full-time job would afford them.

Pricing Psychology

Janene: It is a different picture that’s for sure. Excellent. I’ll be sure to get that on there. Simone, I’m curious as someone who’s listened to a lot of episodes, what sort of topics would be something that maybe we haven’t covered on the show that you’d be interested to learn more about?

Simone: I’m always interested to learn more about (pricing) psychology because I think this is such interesting topic. I already mentioned that it’s really something that most coaches, most people that think about pricing, just leave out.

How to include more psychology would be so interesting for me. I would immediately join. Maybe psychology is even more important than the numbers itself.

Janene: True that a lot of people will discount the psychology. One of the things that’s really important about it is if you don’t pay attention to it (pricing psychology), it can also hurt your business or hurt your chances of making the sale. It’s not always about using it actively. Sometimes it’s about making sure that you aren’t accidentally doing the wrong thing.

We’ll be sure to bring more of that onto the show. If you’re out there listening to this and you have questions or topics related to pricing that you’d like us to cover on the show. Please go reach out to me and send those in and we’ll get that on the show. Excellent. We’re here today, celebrating the 99th and upcoming on hundredth episode.

What Led You to Start Your Business?

Janene: And I have three very capable businesswomen here. I’d like to ask you a few questions more about your business, as opposed to your experience on the show. Amanda, what led you to start your business.

Amanda: I spent 12 years in the New York city PR agency world, and I was helping the loudest guys in the room be louder than their competition.

I was working with some of the largest organizations in the world, corporations you’ve definitely heard of maybe worked for them. And I felt like between the sort of mandate to help these companies kind of dominate in their field and the corporate culture, which also didn’t really agree with me.

I felt like I just wanna do something that feels like it’s having a positive impact. I just wanna have a positive impact. That was what I kept saying, the refrain in my head. I did not know what that would look like. I wanna have a positive impact, I wanna go out on my own and I had no idea that was such a vague task that I gave myself. Eventually I got, let go from my last job there. The company was downsizing and they eliminated my position. I was like, okay, this is my moment. And I realized that the skillset that I had acquired over the course of those 12 years, having worked in celebrity… when we were talking about first, first job, this was my, my very first position in the PR world was doing, doing celebrity press junkets. Which was really fun like as far as PR is concerned, it was like a really exciting job.

Skillset is What We Need as Business Owners

Amanda: My experience started there and then I went and worked for companies that had complicated stories to tell like pharmaceutical companies launching a new vaccine or a new drug to consumer products where, their message could be really commercial if not dealt with properly.

I had this really kind of vast and deep skill skillset, vast and deep simultaneously in creating a story out of details and messages that the client was really into, but the audience may not have been really into. I needed to satisfy both of those stakeholders and I realized that skillset is what we all need as business owners, larger, small, in order to get our message out there to activate the people who need us so that they know that we can help them.

When I had that realization, I just started to move in that direction and things have evolved precipitously ever since to the point now where I have a framework that I work through with clients that invokes three pillars of visibility. Different tactics from the larger PR world that we can employ.

That feel good to my clients because that’s always the primary goal… you have to feel really good about what you’re putting out there, your messaging, as you mentioned, and the conduit for your messaging to reach your audience, you have to feel aligned in all of that. It has to be strategized and implemented in the right way so that it has the right effect on when it lands with your audience.

PR it elicits the result that you’re looking for. I work in that framework with my clients. To help them reach the people that are going to then become their clients.

Make Sure You Hear the Right Message

Janene: I love it, I think so many people have had this experience of coming out of the corporate world and starting their own business.

And it’s what I hear from people. What I experienced myself is that you assume the people are out there and that they will come, right. there’s this little voice inside your head that says it’ll work, but you don’t necessarily realize the effort that goes into making sure that they hear not just that messages with the right message as well.

Amanda: Yes, exactly. I call that the reverse field of dreams, phenomenon, because it’s, if you build it, they don’t necessarily come.

Janene: Well, I have the price and filled of dreams used to the price, and everybody will buy when you find the right price. that’s it. Love it.

Tip from Carrie

Janene: Carrie, earlier this year, I was planning to have a panel discussion and we’re gonna talk about online courses. I was really excited. Due to time zone challenges, I never got it off the ground. We had Carrie, we had somebody in the UK, myself here and somebody in Australia. One of the things that just didn’t work time. One of the things I’m curious about with what you do with people. I know so many of my followers and people listening have online programs for people. As a business owner and as a specialist in this area, what is it that they need to understand for their clients to get the best out of those courses?

Carrie: I know this may be shocking, but I would say don’t create a course. Like don’t do it. And here’s why I say that. When I stepped into a few years ago, when I stepped into the online market, I recognize that, that is in fact, the trend. Everyone believes that they need a course, I understand where that comes. But when you look at the research around adults and their ability to learn and why they are internally motivated to learn, a course is not always the best option. And so for small businesses group programs or group coaching programs, I really wanna encourage people to think about what are some other ways that you can facilitate learning.

In a meaningful way outside of a course. I do have a complimentary download on my website. That’s like stop creating courses basically. It provides other options, and you have to think about it when you think about the word course. If you didn’t have a wonderful learning experience as a child, you are already uninterested. You’re not gonna be engaged.

Consider Other Avenues

Carrie: I know that’s the trends, but I wanna encourage people to consider other avenues than using a course. That’s for small businesses. When I work with corporate clients who have lots of formalized trainings. My advice to them is please do not create more.

Don’t create more of the sea. Instead, let’s do a deep dive of an audit to assess whether or not what you have is in fact effective often than they are not effective. They do not support engagement. They don’t support retention and they don’t support skills application. From a bottomline perspective, business or corporations are investing in their L and D, but yet they are not achieving the respective outcomes that they would expect.

Looking at it from two perspectives from the small business and the coaching industry, there’s other ways of supporting learning. That’s very structured, but there are other ways outside of a course. Then from the corporate sector, I firmly encourage people to look at it more, all of their materials, more succinctly and design for the adult learner in the workplace.

That is a very specific and very different level of design. I’m gonna write a book about how to use this glass and put it out into the ether. Like it requires a different level of skillset. A very different strategy for achieving the outcomes that people want.

Janene: Right. First of all, I walked right into that…

Second of all, I’m gonna have to figure out how to have this other panel discussion. It’s an important discussion to have. I’ll have to get back on that. Simone, you’ve been a been in business. What about two and a half, three years now? Since you first started

Simone: It’s almost three years now.

Janene: I’m curious.

Lesson Learned from Simone

Janene: What have you learned along the way, starting your own business that you’d like to share with other people who are just getting started?

Simone: The answer for me is very, very short actually. Startups tend to do everything by, try to do everything by themself. Ask for help. Be willing also to pay others, to help you. Please don’t try to do everything by yourself because you lose so so much time. That is also value.

Janene: Yeah. That’s absolutely true. I think sea head shaking all around the, the table. If you were the virtual table here, it’s so true that you know, it feels at times it feels really difficult to make those decisions to invest in the business and, or even just ask for help if that’s what it is.

But it really is also in my experience, one of the most important things to do. Yeah. Okay. Why don’t we start wrapping this up now? I’ve got a few more questions for you.

What Motivates Amanda?

Janene: Amanda, what is it that motivates you each day to get up?

Amanda: Good question. I love mornings.

On a figurative level, I have an eight-year-old daughter, I’m a single mom and I have a great co-parent. I’m not alone in this, but I am alone in my household. So that is a motivator. On a philosophical level, I love owning my own business.

It’s part of my identity. I think coming out of the pandemic, there’s been like a reckoning and re-evaluating, I’ve come down very firmly on the side of I love owning my own business. This is what I wanna continue doing.

On philosophical level in terms of the work I do with clients is I feel very strongly and passionately about the fact that we all have something very important to contribute. and if we don’t have the tools and the fortitude to put it out there, as I help my clients to do, then the world will be missing what we are meant to contribute and even more granularly.

The people who were meant to support will not have the support that we can offer them. I think it’s important right now to be elevating everyone who has classically not been elevated and to share the stage, mic, opportunities and with every opportunity that comes our way, be an advocate. Whoever that is in my world, like a decision maker, a reporter, a journalist that they also talk to someone they may not have otherwise found because that person doesn’t have agency to reach out or whatever it may be. There are a lot of reasons why I get up in the morning. I get chills also when I think about the impact that we all have the capacity to have.

What Motivates Simone?

Janene: Love it. Thank you for sharing. Simone, what gets you outta bed every morning? Gets you going

Simone: From a business perspective, actually, and that is the same reason what motivated me to really be a founder and create my own businesses. Do something that you’re passionate about, do something that feels meaningful to you because then it’s so easy to get out of that.

If it’s not something that you think it’s just, I’m just doing it because I need to have money on my bank account to pay my bills. But it’s way more than that to like, I feel like giving a. Like leaving. I wanna leave a positive hand on that earth and I feel that’s what I’m really doing. This makes me out to get out of bed very easily, actually.


Janene: Yeah, mm-hmm

Simone: I do on the other side as, as from a private perspective, I think I’m so thankful for that life here. And I think it there’s so much to explore and I’m very curious, curious person. I, I love meeting friends and family and, and other people. And. Life is just too short to stay in bed besides it’s after sleep, you know?


Janene: excellent. Thank you for sharing. I love it. I have to say, I really enjoy working with sustainability businesses cuz they have such a passion around what they do and a higher purpose, if you will. And it’s always very exciting working with them. So I’ve really enjoyed that.

What Motivates Carrie?

Janene: Carrie, what motivates you to do what you do?

Carrie: I have to say. I love waking up in the morning when sun shines. I think it goes back to my childhood because that’s how I grew up. As soon as the sun hits me, I’m like, okay, today’s an adventure. Like, really years ago I recognize that I love adventure. I need to embrace the concept of living my life as an adventure.

That’s part of what gets me out of bed every morning. What’s today gonna be about who am I gonna meet? What am I gonna see? Like what crazy TV show am I gonna have the opportunity to watch? It’s just always an adventure and I’m so thankful for that perspective at this point in my life.

From a business perspective. Like Amanda, I was downsized my position or program that I was working in was eliminated. Coincidentally, over the years, I had a waning interest in healthcare, oddly enough, and a growing interest in. Why people were not having a good time at work, ultimately, and it, and what I realized is it was around learning, learning isn’t advocated in the workplace.

In getting my PhD and working reading the research, creating my own research publishing on the workplace experiences, the level, the fire inside of me has grown so much. When I was downsized, I said, okay, this is my chance to really dive into what I’m passionate about.

Like Amanda and Simone have identified, I work with businesses. I’m very committed to the people that I’m working with. During that work, my heart is consistently thinking about the end. If I’m working with a business to improve their talent development trainings, I’m committed to that process.

Consistently Thinking Ahead

Carrie: I’m consistently thinking about the employee what is this? How is this gonna impact their work? Their work life impacts their home life. I’m always thinking ahead and that just stems from early beginnings and healthcare. You’re consistently thinking ahead.

That wakes me up in the morning and encourages me… who am I gonna talk to today? Who is their end user and how can I have an impact on that person’s life? I still get to fly under the radar. Amanda don’t listen right now. Not from a PR perspective.

In terms of like being out there consistently, I get work behind the scenes. I love that because I know that the dedication that I bring to the table and the value that I bring to the table, it’s impacting my clients, which I am so excited and thankful for. More importantly, I’m a spiritual person, when I die and meet my God, I can look in the face and say, I had an impact on other people’s lives.

It wasn’t about the money, it wasn’t about that singular person, it was about everyone that they touch. That gets me up in the morning and that provides me good night rest because I have to say working for larger organizations, I was in higher education. There were many nights that I didn’t sleep well.

Because I am driving my own bus, I’m driving my own agenda and I’m following something that means more to me than someone else’s agenda. When I tell you I have slept so good for the last couple years that I’ve been in business for myself. I am absolutely incredibly thankful.

My life has brought me to this point because it wasn’t something that I anticipate in, but yep. Every morning.

Wrapping it Up

Janene: Thank you.. Thank you so much, Carrie, for sharing that. Thank you to all of you. It’s been a real pleasure having you here with me to, we should have worn pottery hat. So I didn’t think of that.

I’m sure there’s filter somewhere we could use, but Too late now, just to imagine little little party hats and you know, coming back here and reflecting on, on the show and your experience with the show in different ways and your journey as a, as a businesswoman. So thank you very much for joining me here today. In episode 99.. Thank you.

Simone: Thank you.

Janene: You’re welcome. Thank you also to all of you who have joined us today and who will be listening later. This show is really ultimately there for you to learn and develop and grow in your business. We have one more celebration episode coming up in two weeks.

Coming Soon: Episode 100

Janene: I still can’t believe it. Episode 100. We are turning the tables. That’s right. I’ve invited Pauliina Rasi to come back on the show and interview me. We’re gonna talk about my own pricing journey, my own professional and business journey as well. Be sure to join us for that two weeks from today, which would be the 28th for the live version of the show.

If you’re listening podcasts, it’ll be a week later released as a podcast as well. So be sure to reserve the date and join me for that. Thank you everyone. So much for being with us to hear today. Of course, if you have questions at any time about pricing in your business, you can head on over to www.thepricinglady.com/book-a-call and book a call with me there.

If you’re loving this show, be sure to leave me a review and a rating there. I love hearing from you guys and not just your comments and rave reviews, but also the questions you have and the topics you wanna hear more about. Share those with me there. I wish you all the best have a great day everyone.

And as always enjoy pricing everybody.

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